The winter of our discontent: tolerance for ‘occupy’ demonstrations turning

42 Responses to The winter of our discontent: tolerance for ‘occupy’ demonstrations turning

Debbie says:

November 3, 2011 at 3:26 pm

The tide isn’t turning for me. I fully support the protestors’ efforts. The police state we’re in now is deplorable.

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- Sunnie says:
  
  November 3, 2011 at 4:32 pm
  
  Well said Debbie. I still have hope and will continue to show my support.
  
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- westvirginiapatriot says:
  
  November 3, 2011 at 5:34 pm
  
  If you think it is bad now, you had better bunker in. Support their cause if you must, but if the tone does not simmer down then they may get their wishes. By putting their goal of a communistic nanny state in place, they risk intrusion into EVERY aspect of our lives. This planned, slow, and methodical take-over is exactly what certain powers-that-be want—and our lives will never be the same.
  
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  - Talon Verdugo says:
    
    November 4, 2011 at 12:48 am
    
    I don’t believe the Occupiers are looking for a communistic nanny state….but I’m ill-informed on the subject. I am somewhat concerned that certain groups may ally themselves with the ‘Occupy Movement’ just to cause mayhem in the protests.
    
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nancy says:

November 3, 2011 at 3:56 pm

Alvin, your words ring chillingly true-particularly the last paragraph. The wheels are already in motion. Thanks for your continued enlightenment!

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Guide Fleury says:

November 3, 2011 at 4:04 pm

If they choose to walk the old world then yes, there will be consequenecs for the choices. This is a public relations battle and the Occupiers will have to use it to their advantage if not the conservative, mainstream society will not support them. Thats what they have to do.
I have faith in people. I think we will change but it will take a heavy influence.

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Stephany Ann Popel says:

November 3, 2011 at 4:17 pm

Here is where their focus really needs to lie :

Subject: Warren Buffett Plan

Warren Buffett, “I could end the deficit in 5 minutes,” he told CNBC.

“You just …pass a law that says that anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election. The 26th
amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds) took only 3 months & 8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple! The people demanded it. That was in
1971…before computers, e-mail, cell phones, etc. Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took 1 year or less to become the law of the
land…all because of public pressure.

Warren Buffet is asking each addressee to forward this email to a minimum of twenty people on their address list; in turn ask each of those to do likewise.
In three days, most people in The United States of America will have the message. This is one idea that really should be passed around.

*Congressional Reform Act of 2011*

1. No Tenure / No Pension. A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.

2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security. All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security
system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for
any other purpose.

3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen
made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours
should serve their term’s), then go home and back to work.

If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will only take three days for most people (in the U.S.) to receive the message. Maybe it is time.

All these demonstrators at Wall Street and the other cities should elect a leader and start focusing on these wonderful ideas.

The main disagreement I have with the actions of Occupy Oakland last night is that they prevented willing Americans to do their jobs, essentially taking food off of their tables. Not the direction they need to be heading. I disagree emphatically!!

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- Stephany Ann Popel says:
  
  November 4, 2011 at 7:14 pm
  
  Actually Rita, I appreciate your response to that, and I would like to address such. Warren Buffet has been crying out about the many injustices in our American financial and governmental systems for years. The only politcal connection he ever had was serving as finance advisor to Gov. Schwartzenegger during his 2003 run for office, AND he donates anywhere from 80-95% of his earnings to charities such as The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (possibly more). As far as your statement “are all the brainiacs of the world on the side of the destroyers?”…I’m not quite sure I follow you. And when you speak of the “evil ones” who exactly are you talking about…I thought it was not ours to judge others. As well, money may not motivate you, but try living without it. Just a thought…also I have some recommended reading for you if you’re interested…have you ever read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand? It’s a very good read if you have an open mind and the frightening thing is that it really parallels todays problems. Thanks again for your reply…I look foward to hearing your response.
  
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Todd says:

November 3, 2011 at 4:58 pm

The inevitable has begun, our existence in this world is beginning to morph into despair and depravity. The police state we are in is a prelude to martial law, the prophecies of John will manifest.

We must center ourselves spiritually, forgive ourselves and our neighbors. Seek out the teachings of Christ, do our best to understand his teachings and implement them in our daily lives.

Those who seek will find
Those who find will be astonished
Those who are astonished will rise above all

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Luca says:

November 3, 2011 at 5:01 pm

I will not tolerate violence. However most of the protestors are not violent, the ones who are violent make the news. The quiet ones don’t who just march and speak out.

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- The Extinction Protocol says:
  
  November 3, 2011 at 5:53 pm
  
  I think everyone knows there are anarchists in every crowd…
  
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Bosco Warden says:

November 3, 2011 at 5:21 pm

“they will pave the road of austerity and intolerance enroute to the birth of the authoritarian state.”

Only for people who refuse to use whatever force necessary to keep the republic. but youre probably right, who actually knows what the Declaration of independence says?
“That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government”

It was a good run, its unfortunate our written media isnt also helping in these matters as well.

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Jim says:

November 3, 2011 at 5:25 pm

And I though America was Democratic state.

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- Amy P. says:
  
  November 3, 2011 at 8:45 pm
  
  We are a republic, not a democracy…. sorry
  
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Chris says:

November 3, 2011 at 5:29 pm

Just wondering, do you think that these protests will actually make a difference? From what I’ve seen, protests don’t seem to get anywhere because why would the government even care about what the people think, they never have.

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- The Extinction Protocol says:
  
  November 3, 2011 at 6:30 pm
  
  New World Order of Control
  
  They raise awareness and exert pressure on issues of the day but prophetically-speaking, the Bible describes a sort of austere tyranny that is to fall over the world in reaction to the earthchanges unfolding across the planet that will be, in some ways, more draconian than what transpired in the Middle Ages. The Middle East doesn’t appear to be moving towards democracy as much as it appears to inching toward theocratic states and Islamic Sharian law. Sharing ideas is one thing, sharing power is always another. The hierarchy model used in worldly governments, and old world mercantilism, and even in Catholicism is identical to the one employed in corporations- it’s an oligarchy or pyramid scheme and this will remain the model for the New World Order. Annuit Coeptis, Providence favors our undertaking for the Novus Ordo Seclorum or New Order of the Ages.
  
  Jesus called them unto him and said, “the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them…but it shall not be so among you.” Matthew 20:25. 26
  
  Fritjof Capra talks about the perils of this archaic patriarchal thinking in his book The Turning Point. His model shows nature works on a different principle and instead of the hierarchy; there is the network and instead of competition, there is cooperation and symbiotic relationships. Spiritually, we still have not matured enough to understand this as a race. Unfortunately, we do not have a world where just men will do just what they morally should, so we should not expect the material kingdoms of this world to be transformed. There is nothing wrong with the motive but frustration should not turn to anger when the ideas of utopia fail to take root. In the end, it is not so much about changing governments as it is about changing hearts or evolution instead of revolution.
  
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  - CBS says:
    
    November 4, 2011 at 11:39 pm
    
    “In the end, it is not so much about changing governments as it is about changing hearts or evolution instead of revolution.”
    
    There is much spiritual growth, but I have faith. When I speak to people I see the inherent goodness inside them. We all need to remind each other of this and embrace each other, because there are those who will try to divide us.
    
    The only evolution we need now is to know that Love is stronger than Fear. That simple realisation will change everything. It will happen slowly. If you can convince one person then it can ripple outwards. The voice of one man, two millennia ago changed the world, however his words have been twisted by those who have used them for their own means and to foment hatred and war. That is not what Jesus asked of us and that is not the example he gave. We must reclaim his message, one soul at a time.
    
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  - Chris says:
    
    November 5, 2011 at 7:32 am
    
    I’ve been wishing and praying for change ever since I was a little kid. Precisely, it was around 9/11 when I suddenly woke up (I was only a teenager at the time), and it felt as if I gained some sort of awareness of the world. But everyday I feel as if hope is slipping away, I see signs not of brighter days, but darker ones. It just seems that every day we’re not moving closer to the chosen path of spiritual awaken, but rather to the one that is filled with all the worst things we can think of, and really we can already see that we live in a world like this.
    
    I try to believe the following is true, but I can never tell with all sorts of confusion about lately. I like to believe that the Mayans did have a deep understanding of our evolution and that hopefully we are advancing towards the path of our final level of evolution. I want to believe it, but it seems too good to be true. Yet when times are dark, there is always light that will shine again. I mean, can we really just be such a bloodthirsty race that cannot change it’s ways? The answer is of course we can change, the obsticals in front of us however are greater than the force we have as a population right now. We need one big event to happen that effects every human on this planet that will show the evil of our ways and lead us towards a new world that is much more collaborant instead of greedy. Collaboration as a whole makes anything possible.
    
    But under this higher power, this elite that controls our fate, we remain sheep in the herd. I personally do not want this to continue, we keep paying for the consequences of greedy people, who live their life in luxury while we all struggle to get through school to get a job to sustain not only yourself but your family as well, not to mention those who are not even given this chance, that suffer constantly with very little hope in the future.
    
    This can’t be the world I pictured to live in 10 years ago. And the question I keep asking myself, when will it all unfold? I find it tough to believe in many prophecies since there are so many contradicting things that nothing can be proven to be valid. So how do we just keep living life as if nothing is going on? My entire life is based on “everything is going to be ok” and “don’t worry, we’ll all get through this”, yet we all are told to believe things like this and look at everybody. It’s like the entire population is brainwashed, except for the very few select % of people on this planet, some of whom visit this site regularly, that realize that there MUST be something big going on.
    
    Keep up the good work Alvin, and I pray for love and safety for every person on this Earth, in hope that we will all soon advance to a much greater race.
    
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Irene Carmichael says:

November 3, 2011 at 5:55 pm

If these protests were genuine, I would have some support for them, but they are not what they appear to be. This is unorganized mob mentality that has no clear cut agenda except to bring down the current system. The outcome will be getting rid of one police state and ushering in another, possibly a worse one. Study your history and see what mob mentality has accomplished. Many innocent people have died in the past. Take a look at all the current uprisings in the Mid East. These people did not get the “democracy” everyone thought they were fighting for. Also, take a look at the French Revolution.

I am against all of the greed and corruption that I see. Greed and corruption can only be eliminated with a change of heart. Also remember that these large corporations are working hand in hand with our government. When the violence escalates, martial law could be enacted then we all suffer. For anyone who supports these protests, please look again and look to see who is supporting them. The OWS is a smokescreen for a more sinister plan.

Maranatha

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- Jake says:
  
  November 3, 2011 at 7:02 pm
  
  Perhaps you should look at the American revolution. How long would you have liked the colonists to ask nicely for change? I find it funny how everyone says violence is not acceptable, yet they won’t bat an eye at the violence and tyranny thrust upon them by a police state government.
  
  Remember our founding fathers… They realized that lasting change has a price. I for one and thankful they were willing to pay that price; and like it or not, they are the only example we have to follow.
  
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- Amy P. says:
  
  November 3, 2011 at 8:50 pm
  
  Very nicely said. Well meaning people are being used by the unions and communists. This has been planned. Look up what Van Jones teaches…”top down, bottom up, inside out”! This movement is not grass roots. It has been in planning for years. Thanks George Soros (sarc.)
  
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- Xavier says:
  
  November 4, 2011 at 3:43 am
  
  Irene, you hit the nail well.
  
  Peace!
  
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Rick3 says:

November 3, 2011 at 6:04 pm

“In the end, they will not roll back the old world machinery nor will they usher in the reforms most protesters envision. Instead of exorcising the corruption from archaic power structures, they will pave the road of austerity and intolerance enroute to the birth of the authoritarian state. –”
I hate to say it, but I believe you are right, Alvin. They will not give up their power.

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Michele B says:

November 3, 2011 at 6:53 pm

Alvin, how likely do you think it is that martial law will be declared in the US before the next presidential election takes place?

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- The Extinction Protocol says:
  
  November 6, 2011 at 7:22 pm
  
  I think we have to live with the possibility and mindset to prepare ourselves for “any and all eventualities.” I don’t think any of us should spend too much time staring into the glare of these protests because other issues are equally challenging to the way of life as we know it on this planet. 2012 is a powerful year in terms of having powerful psycho-mythological and religions implications. Many powerful forces will collide that year and I think life will only grow more stressful from here. Ponder what I’m about to say carefully because it’s sole purpose is to cover scenarios and it is not intended as a forecast of any kind:
  
  Solar maximum 2012 – 2013
  The year of the return of Quetzacoatl – 2012
  The year intelligence officials believe Iran will have nuclear weapons capabilities – 2012
  The year President Putin is to return to power in Russia under the banner of a stronger more assertive nationalism – 2012 http://www.voanews.com/english/news/europe/Medvedev-Proposes-Putin-for-Russian-President-in-2012-130492568.html
  
  Is the year of the Dragon – Rise of militarism in China: China’s national symbol coincides with year- 2012 http://www.stanssewingsupplies.com/catalogs/store.asp?pid=254835 [Dragon in the Bible also used for Satan]
  
  Earthquakes, and natural disasters are increasing – 2012
  Chances of a market collapse from debt maturities are greater next year – 2012
  U.S. budget deficit is expected to reach $17 trillion dollar mark– 2012
  
  Could war with Iran and or a resulting crisis possibly suspend U.S. elections? – 2012 http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nspd/nspd-51.htm
  
  Consequently, we have some very difficult times ahead of us and things will only grow more dire from here. 2012 is not the end of the world though, in some ways, it may end up feeling like it.
  
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luisport says:

November 3, 2011 at 7:23 pm

MachahirNews Sami Machahir
BREAKING: US author Christopher Hedges is arrested in front of Goldman Sachs headquarters in New York city. #ows
há 1 minuto » MachahirNews Sami Machahir
BREAKING: Approximately 15-20 protesters were arrested in an act of civil disobedience at Goldman Sachs in New York city. #ows
há 6 minutos

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JerseyCynic says:

November 3, 2011 at 8:42 pm

Alvin — Cooperation MUST replace competition. This is my daily mantra. Until this happens (or is forced upon us) the political noise will just get louder and louder as the Empire falls deeper and deeper into despair. THE STATUS QUO HAS TO GO.

“No man is an island”

Irene — from day one I have felt that OWS will be someone’s catalyst for something big, very soon. Google –landdestroyer blog and US state department funded agitators –and you’ll see what might be really going on here — I tend to believe it.

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JerseyCynic says:

November 3, 2011 at 10:36 pm

Alvin – you would enjoy this brief essay about a world without money. http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/steinsvold.htm I agree with the author — it is possible. He emphasizes the mindset shift from competitiveness to cooperation. Hopefully this very possible world without money scenario will begin to play out in other peoples thoughts as this whole FFFFFFIAT currency scam plays out across the globe. LOCALISM people!! — remember your monkeysphere — http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html

I will be taking this “treemageddon” opportunity here in connecticut to point this out to people. LOTS of folks doing some serious reflection around my neck of the woods this week– PRAISE THE LORD (and pass the ammunition!) This was surely a blessing in disguise around this affluent area of the country, imho. I might not have to say to much. I’ve been screaming this for years. Maybe now, others will start also.

11/11/11 — the opportunity for the world to “connect” and embrace this new level of consciousness that is waiting around the corner.

Hey — maybe these upcoming solar flares will knock out everyone’s cable teevee and force them into their OWN realtiy!

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- The Extinction Protocol says:
  
  November 4, 2011 at 1:01 am
  
  Thanks for the send-along Jersey Cynic
  
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Melanie Pelton says:

November 3, 2011 at 11:01 pm

I was saying the exact same thing today to a friend. I am all for the “cause” but the method is going in the wrong direction and we are all about to loose even more of our “freedoms”

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jones2012 says:

November 4, 2011 at 6:13 am

The occupy movement is funded in part by George Soros. The people that are photographed the most are actors from Arizona. Sometimes they play cops and sometimes they are the protesters.

http://www.wellaware1.com

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Nibikwe says:

November 4, 2011 at 10:53 am

Non-violent civil disobedience. This is the key to success. The ‘protestors’ who are inciting violence in this now world-wide movement are paid provacateurs….basically attempting to herd people into a trap, manipulate the minds of the masses, leading citizens into accepting Marshall Law . These paid provacateurs ought to be arrested by citizens and handed over to their handlers, the police. Hanging out in the people’s commons…parks, will only carry this movement/winter of our discontent so far.

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Kwazai says:

November 4, 2011 at 1:07 pm

Its understandable- wall street profited here lately- my 401k lost about 8k- must have been a bunch of commisions in the profit. Should be they only get paid when I make money and they should shoulder the additional costs like any professional…
Opposite tack is probably a better prescription- write in votes- ‘NONE OF THE ABOVE’ next election. it would be a small percentage, but would be heard.
The teeth were removed before any health care legislation started- anything that would make a difference- money motivated I suspect.
The gov’t (we the people) throwing money at a problem doesn’t work- more and more people line up for the money and take a wait and see attitude. Without it they’d get on to something else.
In time of this recession(depression), I’m planting a victory garden… (warm place to sleep, food in your belly and the love of your family and friends). If I could get to living without money- I’d pay no taxes- no one in the ‘gov’t’ would be able to spend anything. No wall street broker would either.
Eutopia- probably not. 1800’s farm life was pretty brutal I’ve read. Real- very much so.
I like the comment links from Cracked on MonkeySphere- It’s business at its finest- banana on a ladder with monkeys caged- hose em down when they go for it. sooner or later after replacing various monkeys- the monkeys will stop the new monkeys from going for the banana without ever having been hosed. (Harvard school of management- in response to bonus incentives).
So much of what we think we need is driven by a society which wants to convince us we need it.
I for one am trying- at the point I die I won’t need money, it would just be nice to get there before then…
running the race- maybe not, but to die is gain.
Mike

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Jaroslav says:

November 4, 2011 at 4:17 pm

paradoxical but Ukrainian media are silent about the rally in the U.S.

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CBS says:

November 5, 2011 at 12:59 am

Apologies for the length of this but Alvin’s posts and all the comments on this blog are so thought provoking.

I have read many sermons of Martin Luther King and have used them to give me strength in my many moments of despair. MLK was arrested, beaten and his family were bombed yet despite the understandable anger that raged in his heart he did not retaliate because he asked God for help and followed the teachings of Christ. St. Augustine said “Resentment is like taking poison and hoping the other person dies.”

MLK preached non violence but that, like Christ, did not stop him from speaking out:

“When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, militarism and economic exploitation are incapable of being conquered. A nation can flounder as readily in the face of moral and spiritual bankruptcy as it can through financial bankruptcy.”

I can hardly believe that was said 50 years ago and is so relevant to this day and so relevant to this moment in time.

The current movement will not always get it right, we can’t support everything they do or their ideas even if they remain peaceful and non-violent, but they are standing against intense corruption by a few. They are standing against evil. Remember Jesus was castigated because the company he kept was the sinner, the unclean, the outcast. We cannot preach to these people, but we can speak with them, engage them, love them, embrace them and like Martin Luther King we can speak with them. If we do not speak then we allow the voices of anger, frustration and fear to divide us and allow those who wish to dominate . Love cannot grow where fear reigns. Tens, if not hundreds of millions of people the world over are suffering needlessly, whilst others bathe in asses milk and tell us of their suffering. I have always believed anger was wrong, but why would God in his loving way make this a part of us? That is when I realised what Righteous Anger is. It is not anger based in fear or hate but anger because we cannot abide the suffering of others. It is why the Lord said to Moses “”Go to Pharaoh and say to him, ‘This is what the LORD says: Let my people go, so that they may worship me.” Exodus 8:1

I believe the Earth is God’s Temple and we have a duty to clean the Temple:

So they came to Jerusalem, and he went into the temple and began driving out those who bought and sold in the temple. He upset the tables of the money-changers and the seats of the dealers in pigeons; and he would not allow anyone to use the temple court as a thoroughfare for carrying goods. Then he began to teach them, and said, “Does not Scripture say, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations’? But you have made it a robbers’ cave.” The chief priests and the doctors of the law heard of this and sought some means of making away with him; for they were afraid of him, because the whole crowd was spell-bound by his teaching. And when evening came he went out of the city. Mark 11:15-19

“Has this house, which bears my Name, become a den of robbers to you? But I have been watching! declares the LORD.” Jeremiah 7:11

To bring this back to one of Alvin’s earlier comments, I return to the words of Martin Luther King:

“Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love.”

Alvin, from the depths of my heart I thank you for your work because you have created a temple – for all nations – where we can meet and realise we are truly not alone. That by loving we are not outcasts and that we know what lies in our hearts is not an illusion but is the reality. May the Lord be with you and all of us.

Love & Peace

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- nickk0 says:
  
  November 5, 2011 at 2:13 pm
  
  “When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, militarism and economic exploitation are incapable of being conquered. A nation can flounder as readily in the face of moral and spiritual bankruptcy as it can through financial bankruptcy.”
  
  CBS ….. What Martin Luther King said, is even MORE relevant TODAY, than it was back then !!
  
  – Nick
  
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  - Craig S says:
    
    November 7, 2011 at 12:01 am
    
    I have to agree with you nickko, those words grow more relevant with each day.
    
    Love & Peace
    
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Irene Carmichael says:

November 7, 2011 at 7:19 pm

I was just thinking. I’ve been reading all of these comments. Then I read one of Alvin’s latest posts about the unending misery in Somalia. And I want to know – What do these people have to complain about? Over there you have governments that have real corruption, so much so that their people are starving. I don’t know about you, but I thank God every day for what I do have and I don’t complain about what I don’t have.

My apologies, but reading that Somalia article then going back to this just struck a nerve today. I don’t think people realize how blessed we are here in the United States and in many of the western countries.

Maranatha

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- Stephany Ann Popel says:
  
  November 18, 2011 at 7:41 pm
  
  My boyfriend has a cartoon hanging on his fridge (which most ppl in 3rd world countries don’t have btw) that has a mother in, I’m guessing, a third world country, that the caption reads while she’s holding her baby (something to the effect of) “wow it must be tough to be middle class in America”…just really struck me as so true that I had to share
  
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icuricub says:

November 11, 2011 at 4:27 pm

Twitter Ordered to Yield Data in WikiLeaks Case
SAN FRANCISCO — A federal judge on Thursday ruled that Twitter, the popular microblogging platform, must reveal information about three of its account holders who are under investigation for their possible links to the WikiLeaks whistle-blower site.

The case has become a flash point for online privacy and speech, in part because the Justice Department sought the information without a search warrant last year. Instead, on the basis of a 1994 law called the Stored Communications Act, the government demanded that Twitter provide the Internet protocol addresses of three of its users, among other things. An Internet protocol address identifies and gives the location of a computer used to log onto the Internet.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/11/technology/twitter-ordered-to-yield-data-in-wikileaks-case.html?_r=2&partner=MYWAY&ei=5065

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Stephany Ann Popel says:

November 18, 2011 at 7:43 pm

I also have to say that I am so happy for the freedom that we have to discuss such things here without the fear of persecution…thank you Alvin for setting up a site that educates people in a real time manner and no matter what our views we are still free to discuss them…that is the true education.

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- The Extinction Protocol says:
  
  November 18, 2011 at 9:57 pm
  
  Glad it’s a novice for such Stephany. Thanks for being here…
  
  peace and blessings,
  Alvin
  
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